Transcripts - March 22, 2008
1117
1 BEFORE THE WEBSTER COUNTY CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION
2 CURTIS W. RUBY, )
)
3 Appellant, ) TRANSCRIPT
) OF
4 vs. ) PROCEEDINGS
)
5 WEBSTER COUNTY ) VOLUME IV
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, )
6 )
Defendant. )
7 ------------------------)
8 The above-entitled matter came on for
hearing before the Webster County Civil Service
9 Commission, commencing at 8 a.m., March 22,
2008, at the Law Enforcement Center, 702 First
10 Avenue South, Fort Dodge, Iowa.
11 Commission Members: JANECE VALENTINE
DARREN DRISCOLL
12 BENNETT O'CONNOR
13 A P P E A R A N C E S
14 Plaintiff by: ROXANNE BARTON CONLIN
Attorney at Law
15 Roxanne Conlin & Associates
319 Seventh Street
16 Suite 600
Des Moines, IA 50309
17 (515) 283-1111
18 Defendant by: BRIDGET R. PENICK
Attorney at Law
19 Dickinson, Mackaman, Tyler &
Hagen
20 699 Walnut Street
Suite 1600
21 Des Moines, IA 50309
(515) 244-2600
22
23
24 Reported by: Nancy S. Warren, C.S.R.
25
1118
1 I N D E X
2 CURT RUBY
3 Examination by: Page
4 Ms. Conlin 1119, 1328
Ms. Penick 1248
5
Exhibit Offered/Admitted
6
AA 1286 1286
7 BB 1299 1300 (Sealed)
EE 1334 1334
8 GG 1305
HH 1310 1310
9 II 1307 1308
JJ 1309 1309
10 KK 1334 1334
MM 1308 1308
11
9 1330 1330
12 12 1330 1330
13 1330 1330
13 18 1206 1206
30 1182 1331
14 36 1331 1332
37 1207 1207
15 508 1246 1246
537 1332 1332
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1119
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 MS. VALENTINE: Are the parties
3 ready to proceed?
4 MS. CONLIN: Yes.
5 MS. VALENTINE: Great.
6 Good morning. The witness is
7 reminded that he is still sworn, and you may
8 proceed with your testimony.
9 MS. CONLIN: Thank you.
10 DIRECT EXAMINATION (CONT'D.)
11 BY MS. CONLIN:
12 Q. I'd like to first talk briefly about
13 the MMPI that you took in 1997.
14 A. All right.
15 Q. Do you recall that? It's a part of the
16 record, and I just have a couple of questions
17 for you.
18 Was that test taken in May
19 of 1997 for the purpose of your job, your new
20 job here at the sheriff's department?
21 A. Yes, it was.
22 Q. And as a result of taking that test,
23 did anyone take any action against you?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Or comment in any way about anything
1120
1 that the MMPI said?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Or anything you were doing?
4 A. No.
5 Q. And the sheriff kept you on --
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. -- after that test?
8 We also heard some testimony from
9 Chief Deputy O'Brien that -- oh, I'm sorry -- In
10 2004, generally, was the department
11 short-staffed?
12 A. The department has been short-staffed a
13 lot over the last few years.
14 Q. Were you during that time frame, you
15 and others, limited on the amount of time that
16 you could take off as a result of the short
17 staffing?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. There was a complaint against you that
20 we've looked at, I think -- No, no. I'm sorry.
21 It was before that complaint.
22 You were home periodically with
23 Rhonda and her mom; right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. All right.
1121
1 Exhibit X in the red book is the
2 complaint that we have discussed about your
3 going home early at the end of the shift. This
4 is 10-21-04.
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. Do you recall who you met with that is
7 recorded on Exhibit X?
8 A. May I take just a moment?
9 Q. You bet.
10 A. I met with Sheriff Mickelson, and at
11 that time it would have been Chief Deputy Chris
12 O'Brien.
13 Q. And Chris O'Brien is Jim O'Brien's
14 brother?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Do you happen to recall when Chris
17 O'Brien stopped being the chief deputy?
18 A. I don't know the exact date.
19 Q. Did he then become a -- Did he go down
20 in rank, or what happened?
21 A. He went back to his rank as sergeant.
22 Q. And did he subsequently leave the
23 sheriff's department?
24 A. He did.
25 Q. Was there a lap over the two O'Briens
1122
1 in terms of being chief deputy? In other words,
2 if the records reflect that on January 23rd,
3 2006, James O'Brien became chief deputy, then
4 would Chris O'Brien have been the chief deputy
5 on January 22nd?
6 A. I don't know.
7 Q. After you had your meeting with the
8 sheriff and with Chris O'Brien, did you --
9 were you careful to meet the requirements of
10 Exhibit X?
11 A. I was.
12 Q. Was there any subsequent complaint of
13 this nature?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Do you recall the drug bust that Brian
16 Mickelson was talking about in his testimony?
17 A. I do not.
18 Q. Do you recall the incident where he
19 said you drove by and something bad happened,
20 drove by --
21 A. Very vaguely on that.
22 Q. What can you tell us about that, if
23 anything?
24 A. What I recall may have happened is I think
25 I wanted to see where they were positioned early
1123
1 on into this thing because no one told me, and I
2 just wanted to do a quick, casual -- I don't
3 think I even went all the way around the square.
4 I think I took a right, started around the
5 square and took the next right, because I just
6 wanted to do a fast, there they are, and out of
7 there.
8 Q. All right.
9 MS. VALENTINE: Time out. The
10 commission is confused what incident you're
11 referring to. This isn't the trailer court?
12 MS. CONLIN: It may have been
13 Halligan. My notes do not accurately reflect
14 what it is, but it's testimony about -- Was it
15 stolen property or drugs or -- I can't remember.
16 MS. VALENTINE: Is this on the
17 square?
18 MS. CONLIN: Yes. Who testified
19 to that?
20 MS. VALENTINE: Yes.
21 MS. CONLIN: Well, somebody,
22 because I remember it vaguely, and I have a
23 note.
24 Q. Do you have any comment on those two
25 events that were the subject of testimony, the
1124
1 drug bust and driving around the square?
2 A. The only reason I have any recall on
3 the square is I recall some grumbling about it,
4 and I was confused as why there was grumblings
5 about it.
6 Q. Is it also possible that you might have
7 made a mistake in connection with either of
8 those events?
9 A. It's possible.
10 Q. Over the 28 years of your career in law
11 enforcement, do you think you might have made a
12 few mistakes now and then?
13 A. I bet I have.
14 Q. I want to now direct your attention to
15 the special election in which Sheriff Mickelson
16 was elected.
17 Though I know the record reflects
18 that you supported Lieutenant Stubbs, in terms
19 of your observation and based also on any
20 conversations you may have had with
21 Lieutenant Stubbs, how is Lieutenant Stubbs
22 treated by Brian Mickelson?
23 A. Lieutenant Stubbs right after the
24 election was put on nights for several years.
25 Q. Anything else?
1125
1 A. I don't know if this is applicable, but
2 Lieutenant Stubbs, Lieutenant Wilson and myself
3 had experienced some ransacking of either our
4 mailboxes and/or our file cabinets.
5 Q. All right.
6 A. And though there was no proof, we found
7 this suspicious.
8 Q. During the campaign, did you have any
9 visible means of supporting Lieutenant Stubbs?
10 A. I did.
11 Q. What was that?
12 A. I had a Stubbs sign in my yard.
13 Q. Were you, as far as you know, on the
14 Civil Service eligibility list for both your
15 hiring by the sheriff and your promotion to
16 sergeant?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. You mentioned a mailbox ransacking.
19 Will you please tell us about that -- those
20 incidents?
21 A. If I would clarify, the ransacking
22 would have been primarily in Lieutenant Wilson's
23 file cabinet, but in my mailbox, there wasn't a
24 ransacking per se.
25 However, I had -- I always put
1126
1 the upcoming court dates on top of everything so
2 that I don't forget and miss court, and there
3 was one court date I wasn't sure about, and I
4 went to check my mailbox, and I couldn't find
5 it.
6 And I had several court dates
7 sitting on the top, so I started going through
8 my mailbox, and then I started noticing that
9 things were out of place, and I found my court
10 dates buried in papers that I can't imagine why
11 they -- how they could have got there.
12 And I felt that my mailbox had
13 been tampered with, and I wondered why it would
14 be with the court dates missing -- or misplaced.
15 Q. Did you make a complaint about that
16 situation?
17 A. I did.
18 Q. And I don't know what his rank was, but
19 did Kruse tell you the same thing that he told
20 us on the stand, which was it was the
21 secretary's fault?
22 A. Yes, he blamed the secretary.
23 Q. And had it ever happened before?
24 A. Not to my knowledge. Those secretaries
25 were always careful with at least my mailbox.
1127
1 I'm sure everyone else's as well.
2 Q. Did you complain -- To whom did you
3 complain about these events?
4 A. I didn't complain right away
5 because I wasn't sure what to think at first
6 with my situation, but then when I told
7 Lieutenant Wilson, he then told me about his and
8 Stubbs' file cabinet, and that's when I thought
9 it would be a good time to complain.
10 Q. And was anything done?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Did you speak with Jim O'Brien about
13 that situation?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Have you, to your knowledge, ever been
16 diagnosed as paranoid?
17 A. No.
18 Q. In connection with the ransacking of
19 your mailbox and other things of that sort, did
20 Deputy Strait tell you about a conversation that
21 he overheard? Please tell the commission.
22 A. I'm sorry.
23 Yes. A couple of years later --
24 I don't know why it came up or how it came up,
25 but -- No, wait. I do.
1128
1 A couple of years later
2 Deputy Strait told me that he had overheard
3 deputies laughing about my mailbox being
4 ransacked.
5 Q. Okay.
6 We're going to begin our foray
7 through the --
8 A. Or correction. Misarranged.
9 Q. Oh, before I go to these, I want to
10 also ask you, when did Rhonda change jobs?
11 A. I'm thinking about eight or nine months
12 ago, approximately.
13 Q. March of '07 sound familiar?
14 A. Yes, that would be in the ballpark.
15 Q. And was that for the campaign that you
16 planned?
17 A. No, it was not.
18 Q. Let's begin with the December 5th Tony
19 Thompson incident. Tell us what happened.
20 A. Well, it was a nice day until --
21 Q. Not that much detail.
22 A. Okay.
23 Q. Really.
24 A. I'm sorry.
25 I was very close to Moorland,
1129
1 less than a half a mile, if I recall, and the
2 call tripped out to the deputies that there was
3 an intoxicated male who would not leave the
4 residence in Moorland.
5 I immediately responded. I
6 radioed in that I was very close.
7 Upon arrival, there was a vehicle
8 parked in the driveway of the residence that was
9 running. I radioed that in.
10 I saw no one at the front door.
11 Looked like there was something going on toward
12 the more rear door or side door, and there was a
13 porch, if you will, back porch, enclosed that I
14 went into, opened the door because I saw people
15 in there, and there was -- there was -- whom I
16 recognized as Tony Thompson.
17 Q. You recognized him why?
18 A. Because I have fought with him before.
19 Q. Go ahead.
20 A. And there were two -- what appeared to
21 be very frightened females in close proximity
22 with him, and this was a very tight area, and it
23 was my understanding that there was a male
24 inside the house that was too afraid to come
25 out.
1130
1 I assessed the situation. Very
2 frightened women. It appeared to me that Tony
3 Thompson was in his -- what I would call his
4 usual state. He looked to me that he could be
5 drunk, high, or both.
6 And I asked the ladies what was
7 going on, and they both had their heads hung
8 down, and I said to one, I said, "I know you're
9 afraid of this man, but I am not. Please speak
10 freely. I'll take care of everything."
11 Q. Now, was Andy there at the time?
12 A. Right about there I noticed that Andy
13 was there, so I had some backup.
14 It was explained to me that he
15 had found his girlfriend there that he was
16 looking for. He had abused her, and she was
17 hiding from him, and he was trying to take her.
18 I then asked who owned the
19 residence or lived at the residence, and they
20 said the gentleman inside. I said, "Call him
21 please."
22 He reluctantly came to the door,
23 peeped out of the door. I asked if he
24 controlled this residence. He said he did. I
25 said, "Do you want this gentleman gone?"
1131
1 He said he did, and I said, "Sir,
2 you're going to have to leave. These people
3 don't want you here anymore."
4 Q. You're talking to Thompson now?
5 A. Yes, I was talking to Thompson.
6 I told him something to the
7 effect, "It looks like you've been drinking, but
8 I will give you a ride since I can't let you
9 drive."
10 And his response was no, and I
11 repeated, I said, "You have to leave or you'll
12 be arrested."
13 And he said no.
14 Knowing his history personally at
15 one point, looking at the situation, and he had
16 a large -- you know, a large Carhart coat on. I
17 was concerned there may be weapons. He is a
18 very physically strong man. He had just gotten
19 out of federal prison, so he was in pretty good
20 shape.
21 The first thing I wanted to do
22 was get him out of there, away from these women,
23 and get him in an environment which I could
24 control better, which I thought would be
25 outside, facedown on the ground.
1132
1 I told him he was under arrest.
2 He said something along the lines of no with
3 some added language, I'm sure.
4 I took him by the arm. I pulled
5 him as fast as I could past the girls, outside,
6 and took him facedown into the yard with the
7 assistance of Deputy Suchan.
8 Q. Well, did he just kind of lay down, or
9 was there a little bit of a struggle?
10 A. No. I took him by surprise by taking
11 him down quick, but once we got down, the fight
12 was on, and it lasted for some time. He was
13 incredibly strong, rigid.
14 Andy Suchan had one arm, thank
15 God, and I was trying to get his other arm back,
16 and he was trying to get up.
17 I had all my body weight up here
18 (indicating) at the top of his -- top of his
19 shoulders, lower part of his neck, and he was
20 lifting me a lot. He was bucking me, and I was
21 having a hard time hanging on.
22 He had the one hand that I didn't
23 have control of in a fence, and I was trying to
24 get his hand off that fence so I could get his
25 arm behind him. And he was very wild,
1133
1 screaming, crazy, throwing me around.
2 I finally got his hand off the
3 fence. I tried to get his arm back, and it was
4 like trying to move someone with a seizure. I
5 couldn't get that arm moved, and so I gave him
6 several blows to the muscle here (indicating),
7 to relax that muscle.
8 Q. By "here," you mean where?
9 A. In the tricep area.
10 Q. Thank you.
11 And did you ever give him any
12 knee strikes?
13 A. No. No, not in this case.
14 Q. All right.
15 When you called for help, who
16 else was on duty?
17 A. Deputy Halligan was also on duty that
18 day.
19 Q. Did he arrive promptly? Was he at the
20 LEC here?
21 A. It was my understanding he was at the
22 LEC.
23 Q. And did he, did Deputy Halligan arrive
24 promptly?
25 A. After we called for help while we were
1134
1 struggling with this individual, he probably
2 arrived between 5 and 10 minutes afterwards.
3 Q. All right.
4 And then you got him cuffed
5 eventually? Oh, go ahead.
6 A. He was -- We got him cuffed prior to
7 Halligan's arrival, but it took some minutes to
8 do this.
9 Q. Did you use pepper spray or Mace?
10 A. Yes. I -- At one point I wasn't sure
11 if we was going to be able to hang onto him. He
12 was getting away from both of us. I didn't know
13 if he had weapons or not, and I thought the best
14 thing to do was go ahead and blind him with
15 pepper spray. Should he get away from us, it
16 would disable him to away from us well if he
17 couldn't see, and I also didn't want him to be
18 able to see us if he had a weapon, and so I
19 ordered Deputy Suchan to pepper spray him.
20 Q. And did he react immediately to that?
21 A. No. He just screamed, but he was still
22 fighting.
23 Q. Even after the pepper spray?
24 A. Yes. The only thing the pepper spray
25 did was, I presume, blind him temporarily.
1135
1 Q. Okay.
2 So now you've got him cuffed.
3 What happens next?
4 A. We got him cuffed and -- Well, we
5 rested for a little while because we were both
6 pretty tired, but then we ordered him on his
7 feet. He didn't want to get on his feet.
8 We finally lifted him up, got him
9 on his feet, and started walking toward the
10 squad car, and he would drop down on me and push
11 into me.
12 And so this went on for a while
13 and I got tired again, and we got about halfway
14 to the squad car, and I just put him down on the
15 ground, and I just sat there with him and took
16 another break.
17 Q. On him?
18 A. Beside him. I kept my hand on his
19 neck, though, but --
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. -- but he was cuffed, so I didn't have
22 to sit on him like before.
23 Q. I'm curious. Did he know who you were
24 as well?
25 A. I don't know if he recognized me or
1136
1 not.
2 Q. All right.
3 A. But -- So we -- I mean, we, I rested
4 there for a little while, and then when -- I got
5 my wind back, and got him back up and took him
6 to the squad car, and then we tried to get him
7 seated, and he wouldn't sit down.
8 And I tried using my weight to
9 pull on him to bend him over, and that didn't
10 work, and this is about when Deputy Halligan
11 arrived.
12 Q. And did Deputy Halligan then assist you
13 in getting him into the squad car?
14 A. Yes. Deputy Halligan told the guy he'd
15 be hobbled if he didn't get in the car, and he
16 did comply to that.
17 Q. Hobbled means what?
18 A. Hog-tied.
19 Q. It's your car you're putting him in;
20 right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Then you get in the car, and what
23 happens on your drive from Moorland to the LEC,
24 which takes about how long?
25 A. Well, going pretty fast, you know,
1137
1 maybe, roughly, 10 minutes.
2 Q. All right.
3 During the car ride to the LEC,
4 tell us what happened, please.
5 A. Oh, he was kicking and screaming and
6 using a lot of profanity and making a lot of
7 threats, and this just went on and on and on
8 until -- until we got close to the LEC, and then
9 he shifted gears on me.
10 Q. All right.
11 A. He then wanted to play the nice guy
12 role. He had heard me radio in, I'm sure, that
13 I was arranging a welcoming committee for him.
14 Q. When -- I know that this is a little
15 difficult for you to talk about, but I think
16 that you should tell the commission what kinds
17 of things he said and what was so particularly
18 difficult for you.
19 A. Yes. He said that when he got out, he
20 and his friends were going to look me up. They
21 were going to abduct my wife and I, and cut us
22 up, and have us watch each other die.
23 Q. All right.
24 And that was not the only threat,
25 I take it?
1138
1 A. No. They were ongoing, but that's the
2 one that stuck to my mind.
3 Q. And after -- When he said that, did
4 you -- Is that when you had the dispatch people
5 start taping?
6 A. Oh, yes. I follow you.
7 While he was going on with this
8 rant, I wanted to record this somehow. Of
9 course, I don't want to have that language go
10 over the radio, but I thought I needed some
11 evidence, so I made the decision -- While he was
12 saying these things, I keyed the mic and held it
13 there for just a couple of seconds, until I got
14 what I wanted, and then I radioed to dispatch,
15 and I said, "Hang onto that for me."
16 Q. When you got to the LEC, you've heard
17 all the testimony about you and what you did.
18 Why don't you tell the commission how you were
19 feeling and what really happened.
20 A. Well, I was pretty jacked up, a lot of
21 adrenaline, extremely angry with this guy, sick
22 of his threats. I was stressed.
23 Q. All right.
24 And so you got here. What
25 happens?
1139
1 A. They were waiting for him with the
2 chair. Had a pretty good group of guys, so I
3 knew, you know, that he would be handled well,
4 but there again, he was playing the nice guy
5 role by this time too, and he could see enough
6 to see that there was a large amount of guys
7 there, and so he, you know, became their friends
8 right away when they worked with him.
9 But as soon as I pulled up, I
10 wanted to remove myself from this guy as soon as
11 possible.
12 I got out of the car. I did use
13 profanity, and I said, "I don't want to be
14 around this guy" or "Keep this guy away from
15 me."
16 And then I went to the sheriff's
17 office, and I sat there for a while, and just
18 took some time to let that adrenaline wear.
19 Q. How much time did you take, Curt, if
20 you recall?
21 A. Probably a half hour or so, and I think
22 I worked a little bit on the reports, starting
23 the reports, but --
24 Q. When you came out of the car, did
25 Sheriff Mickelson say something to you?
1140
1 A. No. I don't think I really gave anyone
2 time to respond to me. I just conveyed very
3 rapidly that I needed to remove myself, and I
4 did so.
5 Q. Do you recall him saying -- Let me
6 start again.
7 Do you recall Sheriff Mickelson
8 saying something about some other felon?
9 A. While I was doing my cool-down and
10 after they had him in the chair and hauling him
11 up, Sheriff Mickelson came in there, and then he
12 told me, "Well, be glad it wasn't some other
13 guy" -- I don't know who he was talking about --
14 "or you wouldn't have -- you wouldn't have come
15 out ahead on this deal."
16 Q. All right.
17 How did you react to that
18 statement?
19 A. I couldn't understand why he said such
20 a thing, and I thought it was kind of
21 insensitive after all I had been through, and I
22 don't know. I just thought it was weird.
23 Q. And Deputy Suchan, was he -- How long
24 had he been on the force?
25 A. Oh, he was brand new. Not very long.
1141
1 I don't know how long, but very new.
2 Q. He stayed behind to do the paperwork
3 for a while?
4 A. He did, yes.
5 Q. All right.
6 And could you tell by observation
7 what impact this fight with Thompson had on
8 Andy?
9 A. Yeah. Well, no new guy should have to
10 go through this, you know, something that
11 intense, and I knew it bothered him, and I was
12 concerned that this would have a negative impact
13 on him.
14 Q. He is no longer with the force; right?
15 A. No.
16 Q. But it was months or a year or so
17 after?
18 A. A year or so, yes.
19 Q. What do you believe would have happened
20 if you had not been able -- if you had not been
21 there?
22 A. If I had not been there?
23 MS. PENICK: Objection. Calls
24 for speculation.
25 MS. CONLIN: Let me do it again.
1142
1 MS. VALENTINE: Rephrase the
2 question.
3 MS. CONLIN: You bet.
4 Q. Curt, as an experienced law enforcement
5 officer, someone who had been at that time in
6 law enforcement for some long period of time, 25
7 years, I believe at that time, what does -- what
8 would have occurred had you not been promptly on
9 the scene?
10 MS. PENICK: Same objection.
11 MS. VALENTINE: Overruled.
12 A. In probability, I believe that he would
13 have abducted that girl and beat her up.
14 Q. As an experienced officer, over the
15 years, what was your -- what had you learned was
16 necessary to do when such an intense
17 situation -- and then accompanied by horrible
18 threats against you and your wife -- what was it
19 necessary for you to do when you got here?
20 A. When I got here?
21 Q. Yes.
22 A. Take time out.
23 Q. Had you found it helpful in the past to
24 separate a prisoner and an officer as soon as
25 possible after a physical confrontation?
1143
1 A. Yes. It is at least normal for me, if
2 I know that an officer or deputy or law
3 enforcement officer has had conflict with the
4 prisoner, to intercede, remove that officer, and
5 interject a new officer so that we can get
6 things defused, stabilized, and hopefully hit
7 the easy button.
8 Q. And, in fact, is that what you're
9 taught at the Iowa Law Enforcement Academy to
10 do?
11 A. It's been a while since I've been to
12 the academy, but -- it is something that I may
13 have been taught, but it's something that I have
14 done throughout my entire career.
15 Q. After these events, did anyone ever
16 tell you until the day of your termination,
17 December 13th, two years -- more than two years
18 later, did anyone ever tell you that your
19 conduct in connection with this December 5th
20 incident was in question?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did anybody ever talk to you about it?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did anyone ever tell you that you were
25 subject to any kind of discipline as a result of
1144
1 your conduct on December 5th, 2005?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Did you fight previously with Tony
4 Thompson?
5 A. I did.
6 Q. Tell us, if you would, briefly what
7 occurred.
8 A. It was two or three years -- or maybe
9 even four years back. It was back a few years
10 when I was on the morning shift when we
11 occasionally would work by ourselves.
12 Q. By that, you mean you're the only
13 deputy on the road?
14 A. I'm the only deputy.
15 And I had responded to a call
16 that there was someone trying to kick down the
17 door of an acreage just north of Fort Dodge,
18 probably a couple of miles north of the
19 Starlight-on-169 area.
20 As it was, I was close again, and
21 I responded. I got there. I didn't see the
22 guy, but the people were inside, and they were
23 afraid. Even the male of the house wouldn't
24 come out. And they said that he was out there
25 somewhere.
1145
1 And so I went looking around, and
2 I found him inside one of their vehicles, laying
3 there, pretending to be nonresponsive.
4 And I shook him and I asked him
5 to wake up, please. No response.
6 Something didn't feel right, so I
7 went ahead, and I thought, "I'm going to put the
8 cuffs on this guy real quick."
9 And as soon as one cuff snapped,
10 the fight was on. And it was a good one too,
11 and it lasted for quite a while, and I
12 eventually did get this guy handcuffed by
13 myself, but, yeah, I had to work for it.
14 Q. You had no backup at that time?
15 A. No backup.
16 Q. And no opportunity to call either?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Have you seen his criminal record, Tony
19 Thompson's?
20 A. I saw it sometime back, and I didn't
21 study it, but it looked lengthy.
22 Q. After this happened the first time and
23 then again the second time with Tony Thompson,
24 did you learn from other officers around this
25 area that nobody ever took Tony Thompson into
1146
1 custody without a fight?
2 A. Pretty much. Well, unless he was
3 having a good day, but I had spoke -- spoke with
4 a Humboldt officer, and I don't remember who he
5 was, but we were just visiting, and I mentioned
6 Tony Thompson, that -- you know, if they had a
7 lot of problems with him since he lived closer
8 to Humboldt, and he had told me that one time
9 they were going to commit him, and it took five
10 or six of them.
11 Q. More recently, have you learned that
12 there was another incident involving him that
13 resulted in an assault on an officer?
14 A. Yes. Officer Chancellor, Jody
15 Chancellor, was attempting to arrest him at
16 Wal-Mart, and as a result, Chancellor's -- one
17 of his knees was damaged quite severely, and he
18 was off duty for months.
19 Q. You have indicated that you did, in
20 fact, cuss and swear?
21 A. Oh, yeah.
22 Q. Is that usual or unusual for you?
23 A. Well, if I'm fighting or have been
24 fighting, I do cuss when I fight.
25 Q. Okay.
1147
1 Probably saying pretty please to
2 Tony Thompson would not have been effective?
3 A. No.
4 And there's kind of a
5 psychological advantage to it too. I've been in
6 more fights than I could tell you, and it does
7 seem to work.
8 Q. Exhibit 503 is that lovely big picture
9 that we have seen of Tony Thompson. You don't
10 need to look. You know what we're talking
11 about.
12 A. I know what you're talking about.
13 Q. That was in your possession. Do you
14 recall why?
15 A. Yes. I wanted to let my wife see what
16 he looked like should he come around.
17 Q. Did you talk to Rhonda about what had
18 happened?
19 A. I did.
20 Q. In his testimony, Sheriff Mickelson
21 said, "Officers deal with this on a daily
22 basis."
23 Is that true?
24 A. Thankfully, not.
25 Q. Such a fight like the one that you had
1148
1 relatively unusual?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Is it also customary for officers,
4 other officers to assist in removing a prisoner
5 from a squad car?
6 A. Yes, if they're violent or
7 noncompliant.
8 Q. Did you learn sometime much, much later
9 that Deputy Suchan was going to be interviewed
10 about this situation?
11 A. I had heard, and I don't recall now
12 from whom, that approximately a year or so later
13 Chief Deputy O'Brien had talked with Andy Suchan
14 about this incident, asking him if I had done
15 anything wrong.
16 Q. Okay.
17 What did you do?
18 A. I didn't do anything, but I certainly
19 began to wonder.
20 Q. Let me see if I can refresh your
21 recollection, Curt, on two things.
22 When you learned -- Is it
23 possible that you learned before he was
24 interviewed, and called him and spoke to him?
25 A. Yes. That is possible, yes.
1149
1 Q. And that he was very concerned about
2 getting in the middle of things?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Okay.
5 That he couldn't understand why
6 this was the subject matter of an interview at
7 that point in time?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. So let's go back a minute.
10 At that point in time, whenever
11 Andy Suchan was going to be interviewed or had
12 been interviewed, did that cause you to wonder
13 whether or not your conduct was in question?
14 A. It did.
15 Q. Did anybody at that point in time speak
16 to you yourself about this?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Let us talk about number 2, which is a
19 sort of general discussion about the month of
20 January of 2006, and in number 2 it is said that
21 you openly expressed your dislike and
22 discontent for Sheriff Mickelson, telling
23 Chief Deputy O'Brien, "He couldn't stand
24 Mickelson, and he would get even with
25 Sheriff Mickelson even if it meant a fight to
1150
1 the death."
2 That's the allegation. Please
3 tell us, do you remember a conversation?
4 A. I do.
5 Q. Okay.
6 Please tell us what your best
7 recollection is.
8 A. I was in the sheriff's office in the
9 deputies' room, and Chief Deputy O'Brien was new
10 to his position, and he had approached me,
11 asking me questions about myself and
12 Sheriff Mickelson.
13 Q. What did you say, as best you recall?
14 A. I told him that we didn't -- you know,
15 or at least I had issues with Sheriff Mickelson
16 because of his callus attitude toward me when I
17 was trying to spend some time with my wife, as
18 much as I could, when her mother was sick.
19 Q. All right.
20 Did Sheriff Mickelson apply to be
21 sergeant at the same time that you did?
22 A. Yes, he did.
23 Q. And you were the person selected at
24 that time?
25 A. I was.
1151
1 Q. Did you ever, ever say anything like
2 you were going to get even, even if it meant a
3 fight to the death?
4 A. Well, that sounds extreme. I'm certain
5 I didn't use that language.
6 If I did -- and I don't think I
7 did -- I certainly wouldn't have meant we were
8 going to go gladiator, but my recall, as vague
9 as it is, is that I said something to the effect
10 of, if I was -- if I was wrongfully accused of
11 anything, or something along that line, that I
12 would go the whole distance or take it all the
13 way, or something like that.
14 Q. All right.
15 Did anyone ever speak to you
16 about the conversation you had with
17 Chief Deputy O'Brien in January of 2006?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Anyone tell you that you could be fired
20 or disciplined in any way for what you said?
21 A. No.
22 Q. In that conversation, did you mention
23 to Chief Deputy O'Brien the problem created for
24 you by the sheriff when Rhonda's mom was dying?
25 A. I don't recall how much detail I went
1152
1 into with him, but I think I spoke my case
2 somewhat to him, as I did to Sheriff Mickelson.
3 Q. Did you say to Chief Deputy O'Brien
4 that if -- in substance, if Sheriff Mickelson
5 wanted to make things right, that he should
6 apologize to Rhonda for his callus attitude when
7 her mother was dying?
8 A. Yes. I was responding to one of his
9 questions, and he asked me, he said, "Well, what
10 would it take to make things right or better
11 between you and Sheriff Mickelson?"
12 And I told him that I thought,
13 given the circumstances, that Sheriff Mickelson
14 owed me and Rhonda an apology.
15 And his response was, "That will
16 never happen."
17 Q. And it never did, did it?
18 A. Not yet.
19 Q. In number 3, that's another generalized
20 remark. In February of 2006, Sergeant Ruby
21 again expressed to Chief Deputy O'Brien his
22 displeasure with the department and his dislike
23 for Sheriff Mickelson.
24 Did you initiate that
25 conversation, or do you remember this
1153
1 conversation?
2 A. I don't remember anything about this
3 one.
4 Q. I take it nobody told you that you
5 could be fired or disciplined for any such
6 conversation, if it occurred?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Let's move to 4, which is the
9 March 30th incident and talk about what
10 happened. Tell us, please. Do you remember
11 this whole thing, I think, right, the March 30th
12 time when there was only Deputy Strait on duty?
13 A. Right.
14 Q. And your recollection is different than
15 his, right, of when you knew -- or did you know,
16 and when did you know it?
17 A. Okay.
18 I knew that that shift was
19 short --
20 Q. Okay.
21 And I understand this is to your
22 best recollection.
23 A. Right.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. To my best recollection, I learned that
1154
1 that shift was short later in the day on
2 March 30th when I had contact with Strait and he
3 had told me that when he came on shift, it was
4 short, and they had to find somebody to cover
5 for it.
6 Q. All right.
7 When you talked to Deputy Strait,
8 he doesn't -- As I recall it, I don't think he
9 remembers actually talking to you, but did
10 you -- What did you expect would happen as it
11 had happened in other -- on other occasions when
12 a shift was short?
13 A. They had been using reserves.
14 Q. All right.
15 Also, calling in people, working
16 overtime, having, you know, somebody do a shift
17 and a half?
18 A. Right. If a shift is short, yeah, they
19 call people in to cover for it.
20 Q. And we've displayed some, but certainly
21 not all of the occasions that the schedule at
22 least says that the shift was short.
23 A. Right.
24 Q. And did anybody else ever get any kind
25 of criticism as a result of not -- you know, not
1155
1 having anybody, any more than one person on the
2 shift, to your knowledge?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Was this during a time, again, when
5 there was an increased workload, and everybody
6 was pretty fatigued?
7 A. Yeah. We -- we were all running pretty
8 tired around that time period, and I don't
9 recall why. I think it's -- For some reason,
10 the workload was just high that month, or last
11 couple of months, but, yeah, we were all tired.
12 We were all tired.
13 Q. On March 30th, 2006, was Rhonda sick?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Not desperately sick --
16 A. No.
17 Q. -- but just not feeling well?
18 A. No.
19 Q. And did you spend some time with her on
20 that day at home?
21 A. I did. I was -- I was working on a
22 project down in the basement, and Rhonda was
23 home sick.
24 Q. All right.
25 Did you receive -- Did
1156
1 Chief Deputy O'Brien call your home?
2 A. Yes, he did.
3 Q. And did you or did you not answer?
4 A. I did not answer.
5 Q. Why?
6 A. Well, like I said, I'm in the middle of
7 a project. It's my day off, my wife is sick. I
8 didn't know what he wanted, but I figured if
9 there was a possibility of a callback, I wasn't
10 wanting to go back, and so I chose to ignore
11 that phone call.
12 Q. All right.
13 In retrospect -- in retrospect,
14 perhaps you should not have done that. Do you
15 agree?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. We've seen this schedule a great plenty
18 of times, the new schedule document of
19 March 2006, which is Exhibit 528, the blank one,
20 the kind of blank one, this --
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do you have -- Are you responsible for
23 filling out Exhibit E, the one that's got the
24 W's and the V's and the S's on it?
25 A. No.
1157
1 Q. Who does that?
2 A. Chief deputy.
3 Q. All right.
4 A. At that time.
5 Q. So in March of 2006 -- I do have to put
6 this up.
7 Do you see all this handwriting?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And is any of that handwriting yours?
10 Do you want to look at it more closely?
11 A. Not to my knowledge, it isn't.
12 Q. Okay.
13 And in the morning of March 30
14 of 2006, you can see that -- and this
15 (indicating) is my writing, my circle -- the
16 schedule also reflects only one -- one person on
17 duty; correct?
18 A. It appears so.
19 Q. All right.
20 And it's blank down here at the
21 bottom (indicating), the detectives. There's
22 nothing in there.
23 A. Right.
24 Q. Do you know why that would be? Does
25 that mean they aren't there, or do you not know
1158
1 what that means? It could mean other things?
2 A. Well, it could mean two things. It
3 could mean that they were there and they hadn't
4 filled in that they worked yet, or they were not
5 there for reasons not indicated.
6 Q. You recall the testimony, I believe, of
7 either -- Well, I'm not sure. I think it was
8 Chief Deputy O'Brien about Richardson just going
9 AWOL?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Have you ever seen the vacation slip,
12 if any, that Deputy Richardson filled out to get
13 that day of vacation on March 30th, 2006?
14 A. Not that I recall.
15 Q. And if, in fact, a deputy had simply
16 failed to show up, would that likely have been a
17 topic of conversation here at the LEC?
18 A. Yeah, it could very well have.
19 Q. Did anyone challenge your conduct in
20 connection with this March 30th matter?
21 A. Not immediately.
22 Q. All right.
23 Let's look at 5. This records a
24 conversation that you had -- Let me begin again.
25 This charge number 5 says that you had a
1159
1 conversation with Chief Deputy O'Brien on
2 April 10th. Is that the first time that you
3 were ever spoken to about March 30th?
4 A. No.
5 Q. When before that?
6 A. It would have been sometime when I came
7 back on my two days off, maybe the first day of
8 work to the second, somewhere in that proximity.
9 Chief Deputy O'Brien had talked
10 to me about that there was a shift shortage, and
11 I explained to him that I didn't know that there
12 was going to be a shift shortage, and I told him
13 that, you know, "I haven't been paying attention
14 to the schedule," and that I hadn't had any
15 involvement, really, since he became chief
16 deputy with scheduling or, really, doing
17 anything with that schedule.
18 And he said something like,
19 "Yeah. I'm the one that's doing the scheduling.
20 It's my fault, and just wanted to know, and
21 well, there it is."
22 I thought it was done with, and
23 that was pretty much the end of the
24 conversation.
25 Q. Then on April 10th he called you in;
1160
1 right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. All right.
4 Do you remember this conversation
5 at all?
6 A. I do remember this one.
7 Q. All right.
8 A. He calls me in, and I sat down, and I
9 don't know what he wants to talk about, but then
10 he starts telling me that he knows that I knew
11 that that shift was short.
12 And I said, "No, you don't."
13 And he said, "I do too."
14 And I said, "Jim, we talked about
15 this. You can't possibly know if I knew that
16 that shift was short, and you're, frankly,
17 talking kind of crazy."
18 And he kept pushing this in kind
19 of an interrogation style, and I was put off on
20 it -- or put off by it, and I just said, "Look,
21 I'm not going to listen to this," and I left.
22 Q. All right.
23 In his own notes he says that
24 when he opened the conversation, that you said
25 something like, "I don't understand what you're
1161
1 talking about."
2 A. Very well could be.
3 Q. All right.
4 Were you evasive in any way?
5 A. Well, I probably wasn't -- I probably
6 could have responded better.
7 Q. All right.
8 And he says you said -- He asked
9 you why you were angry and being belligerent.
10 Do you remember any words like "belligerent"?
11 A. No.
12 Q. And he says that you said, because
13 of -- and this is in Exhibit D. He said that
14 you said, "Because of this nonsense and I don't
15 like your accusations" when -- Okay. I have to
16 start again.
17 He asked you why you were so
18 angry and belligerent, but you don't remember
19 the belligerent word.
20 A. No.
21 Q. And you said, "Because of this nonsense
22 and I don't like your accusations."
23 Do you remember something like
24 that?
25 A. Yeah, I said something along that line.
1162
1 I did.
2 Q. And did you get up and say, "I've had
3 enough of this," and leave?
4 A. I did.
5 Can I reanswer a question?
6 Q. Yes, please, if you made a mistake.
7 A. Just for clarification.
8 Yes, I was evasive. I didn't
9 want to let him know that they were calling me,
10 and that I purposely would not answer.
11 Q. That reminds me. I need to -- Oh, no,
12 I don't.
13 Was it around in this -- the
14 spring of 2006 that you made a tentative
15 decision at least to run against the sheriff?
16 A. I've had some days to think about this,
17 and it seems that around maybe the end of 2005 I
18 had made the decision that I was going to run
19 for sheriff in 2008. However, this wasn't
20 something that I vocalized a lot there, except
21 for people who were very close to me.
22 Q. All right.
23 When do you think that you
24 started to vocalize about running?
25 A. I'm going to say -- I'm going to say
1163
1 around the summer of 2006, somewhere in there I
2 started to get more vocal about it, and tell
3 more people that I was -- that I intended to
4 run.
5 Q. All right.
6 And some of the people were
7 around in the law enforcement center or --
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. -- or at least people that you
10 socialized with and --
11 A. That I normally socialized with, yes.
12 Q. Let's move to number 6, which is the
13 April 21, 2006 charge, and in that charge it
14 says that you spoke with Chief Deputy O'Brien.
15 I'm sorry. He spoke to you.
16 Did that conversation also occur
17 in his office?
18 A. It probably did. These following
19 conversations about this issue, I don't recall
20 any of them with any clarity.
21 Q. All right.
22 And it was a long time ago?
23 A. It was.
24 Q. And I just want your best recollection.
25 Do the three conversations that
1164
1 are recorded as a part of the charge run
2 together in your mind?
3 A. Yes, they do.
4 Q. All right.
5 He -- Okay. We're now about --
6 what are we -- six weeks or so, three weeks from
7 the time that the March -- of the March 30th
8 incident, and he talks to you again, and he says
9 you became enraged and loud and pointed your
10 finger.
11 Do you know whether that's true
12 or not?
13 A. Not normally a finger-pointer. I don't
14 recall pointing my finger. I may have gotten
15 loud, and I may have expressed an unhappiness or
16 even some mild anger about this because --
17 because I'm getting tired of hearing about it.
18 Q. Was a part of the reason that you were
19 tired of hearing about it because this happened
20 all the time?
21 A. It doesn't happen all the time, but it
22 does happen, you know, on occasion, and I've
23 never known it to be such an issue.
24 Q. In his recordation of the incident, he
25 says you said, "Those are accusations and I
1165
1 don't appreciate it."
2 Do you recall whether you said
3 that or not?
4 A. I may have.
5 Q. Did you stare at him in a disrespectful
6 and intimidating manner?
7 A. Yeah. He may have interpreted it as
8 that. I was standing my ground.
9 Q. All right.
10 A. And like I said, I was evasive and
11 defensive on that issue.
12 Q. All right.
13 Did he say to you that you, the
14 sergeant, were solely responsible for ensuring
15 the shift was covered and for the safety of
16 subordinate officers?
17 A. He may have, but I don't have a recall
18 on that.
19 Q. Do you remember saying something like,
20 "I don't appreciate this, and I think you're out
21 of line"?
22 A. No, but I may have said something like
23 "I don't appreciate this."
24 Q. Did you ever receive any discipline for
25 the April 21st conversation?
1166
1 A. No.
2 Q. Did anybody tell you that you could be
3 fired as a result?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Number 7 is a May 12th, 2006
6 conversation, and in the document itself there
7 are no specifics. In the document that is the
8 charge -- which is the only one you saw before
9 these proceedings; right?
10 A. Yeah, yes.
11 Q. The formal charge?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. You never saw Exhibit D, which are the
14 notes of Chief Deputy O'Brien before this
15 proceeding; correct?
16 A. No, I did not.
17 Q. So the May 12th conversation is very
18 general. It says you expressed your displeasure
19 with the department and "stated that if anyone
20 from the Department ever wanted to contact him
21 while off duty that they should forget it
22 because he would make certain he was not
23 available."
24 Did you say that, or that in
25 substance?
1167
1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. And he says you left the office, and
3 then you came back. Tell us about that.
4 A. Again, they were inquiring as to why I
5 didn't come in, or something to do with this --
6 this shift shortage. I don't recall the content
7 of the conversation at all.
8 I left, and then I thought -- I
9 just got mad, and I thought, "This is it. I'm
10 going to put a stop to it."
11 I went in there, and I just told
12 them both, "Look, I pay for these phones. I'll
13 answer them when I want to."
14 Q. All right.
15 A. And then I left.
16 Q. Did that happen in his office?
17 A. In Chief O'Brien's office.
18 Q. All right.
19 And was anybody else in the
20 office?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Let's look at 8. 8 is the charge that
23 you were not following the rules with respect to
24 your community service activities in teaching
25 self-defense to women and talking with church
1168
1 kids about scuba diving.
2 Did you ever see or -- Let me
3 start again.
4 The two, and now I guess three --
5 There are three exhibits with respect to this,
6 the first of which is Defendant's Exhibit J. It
7 is the one for Saturday, July 15th, 2006, and it
8 identifies you as Sergeant Curt Ruby of the
9 Webster County Sheriff's Department.
10 Did you see that at the time?
11 A. No.
12 Q. And did you have anything at all to do
13 with its preparation?
14 A. No.
15 Q. The second one is Plaintiff's
16 Exhibit 24, and that's for the September 30th
17 women's self-defense class.
18 Did you ever see Exhibit 24
19 before -- at some point I know you did. Maybe
20 shortly -- Maybe you saw this one. Do you know?
21 A. I saw it posted at Hemann's --
22 Q. Oh.
23 A. -- on their door, but not out and
24 about, and that was when I was going into the
25 class, or getting ready to do the class.
1169
1 Q. Did you tell Chance that it was
2 inappropriate for him to list you as
3 Sergeant Curt Ruby of the Webster County
4 Sheriff's Department?
5 A. I didn't tell him it was inappropriate,
6 but I told him it was potentially, you know,
7 problematic.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. And I just told him that it would be
10 best if we left that out in the future.
11 Q. All right.
12 And that never happened again?
13 A. No. It was remedied.
14 Q. And the last one has to do with the
15 church camp -- oh, before we leave the
16 self-defense courses, can you give us a little
17 bit of detail about what you're teaching and how
18 often you have taught women self-defense?
19 A. I taught it at the college maybe back
20 around '95, somewhere around there. I did it to
21 the adult education, and I had done it -- oh, I
22 done it probably off and on for a couple of
23 years for them.
24 And then on occasion a woman's
25 group may call me, and like a woman -- a
1170
1 Republican group over at Calhoun County -- I
2 don't know their official name, but I went over
3 and did one for them.
4 And just whenever I was called
5 up, I would go ahead and do a presentation of
6 that nature for women.
7 Q. On your own time?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Without being paid?
10 A. No.
11 Q. And the reason that you devote your
12 time to this teaching of self-defense to women
13 is what?
14 A. To empower women, and just good
15 community service.
16 I'll have to back up and say I
17 did get some pay with the adult education at the
18 college back then.
19 Q. And in each and every time that you
20 have taught this course, have you at the
21 beginning of the class explained to the group
22 that you're not acting in any way for the
23 sheriff's office?
24 A. Yes.
25 What I teach is controversial,
1171
1 and I make sure that that is known, that I don't
2 represent the department for them for that
3 reason, because I don't want problems coming
4 back in the department.
5 Q. Well, how could teaching women
6 self-defense be controversial?
7 A. Arguably, of course.
8 I teach what to do if the
9 avoidance plans don't work. If things are very
10 bad, what you can do, and that would involve
11 breaking fingers and going for eyes and stuff
12 like that, so some may argue that that would be
13 controversial.
14 Q. Okay.
15 Exhibit 11 is your outline for
16 2006, and was that what you used to talk from?
17 A. That was prior to my PowerPoint. I had
18 a rough outline.
19 This was the first time in a long
20 time that I had been asked to do this, and so I
21 dug up old notes and used those. After that I
22 put together a PowerPoint, but it also has a
23 disclaimer in it.
24 Q. That's Exhibit 28 ?
25 A. I would presume so.
1172
1 Q. All right.
2 Then let's talk about the
3 church -- oh, wait a minute. I'm sorry.
4 And you had the -- both --
5 I think both Sheriff Mickelson and
6 Chief Deputy O'Brien have admitted that you did,
7 in fact, have permission from them directly to
8 teach these two courses; correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And all that you understood you were to
11 do was to provide the disclaimer; correct?
12 A. Yes, and I offered that to them when I
13 got permission to assure them that I was going
14 to have one in place. They didn't bring it up,
15 but I did.
16 Q. Now the church, your church group, this
17 is the First Presbyterian Church of Fort Dodge.
18 Tell us about the -- what you did in connection
19 with these children and scuba diving.
20 A. I was contacted -- and I don't recall
21 exactly how -- by someone from the church
22 wanting a scuba diver to talk about scuba
23 because they were going to have summer camp in
24 Okoboji, and some of the kids were interested in
25 taking some scuba lessons there. And they
1173
1 wanted me to just talk about my experience and
2 show the equipment and just go over the basics
3 with them, and then from there they could decide
4 if they were further interested before signing
5 up.
6 Q. How long was that, about? Do you
7 remember that discussion you had?
8 A. The presentation itself, length?
9 Q. Yes, yes.
10 A. I would say 45 minutes, somewhere in
11 there. They wanted to keep it fairly brief.
12 Q. To your knowledge, in any way were you
13 identified with the sheriff's department?
14 A. I don't recall if I told them I was
15 with the sheriff's department or not. I may
16 have, but I also let them know that I was also
17 on the dive team that worked with the sheriff's
18 department. I connected it to let them know
19 how -- that I had some experience with search
20 and rescue, trying to make it interesting.
21 Q. The exhibit that you had in connection
22 with this is 29, and we've already looked at
23 that, and it thanks you and does not identify
24 you as a sergeant; right?
25 A. Right.
1174
1 Q. Or in any way connected to the
2 department?
3 A. No.
4 Q. And, in fact, you also had permission
5 to do this; right?
6 A. Yes. My recall is that I spoke with
7 Jim O'Brien and let him know that I was going to
8 do this. His recall is different, but this is
9 normal for me to let them know if I'm doing a
10 presentation to avoid problems, and I'm pretty
11 sure I did let him know.
12 Q. Did anybody ever ask you about these
13 three events prior to December 13th of 2007?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Did you have any idea whatsoever until
16 you were fired that your conduct was in
17 question?
18 A. No.
19 Q. The presentation that you made to
20 women, you have been doing that since the
21 early -- late '80s, early '90s?
22 A. Early '90s.
23 Q. And let's move to the number 9. That
24 is prior to August 2007, I think, which is
25 really -- we're sure it's 2006, aren't we?
1175
1 MS. PENICK: Well, no, no.
2 MS. CONLIN: Okay.
3 MS. PENICK: Prior to August, so
4 it's from July 2006 through 2007. Do you see
5 that?
6 MS. CONLIN: All right. Maybe I
7 misspoke then.
8 Q. But in any event, you -- It's a general
9 allegation.
10 During the time that
11 Sergeant Ruby was assigned to the night shift,
12 Sheriff Mickelson and Chief Deputy O'Brien
13 received negative feedback from other deputies
14 concerning Sergeant Ruby's attitude, demeanor,
15 lack of attention to duty, motivation, and his
16 overall displeasure with the department.
17 It is, in fact, quite true that
18 you expressed and felt displeasure with the way
19 that this department was being run; correct?
20 A. Yes, but that's taken out of context.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. It's -- or inflated, rather.
23 I have to be careful what I say
24 about the department because I'm aware it's
25 against department policy.
1176
1 Also, you know, wanting to be --
2 you know, wanting to be a future candidate for
3 sheriff, frankly, I don't know what my
4 parameters are, and so I try to tone it down, so
5 to speak, or not get overboard on that type of
6 language.
7 Q. All right.
8 The three deputies who apparently
9 said that, accuse you of these -- of having a
10 bad demeanor and attitude and so on are
11 Halligan, Walter, and Suchan. When you heard
12 those three names for the first time yesterday,
13 did the fact that Halligan was complaining about
14 you surprise you in any way?
15 A. No.
16 Q. All right.
17 Did anybody ever talk to you
18 about the complaints made, or allegedly made
19 against you?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Oh, here is something I want you to
22 speak with the commission about. In Exhibit D,
23 the document you didn't see until the
24 proceedings, Chief Deputy O'Brien says, "I was
25 informed of a statement Sgt. Ruby said to a
1177
1 subordinate to the effect that, 'he really
2 enjoyed being back on nights as it allowed him
3 plenty of time to park in a cemetery, read
4 books, get out and stretch and practice Tae Kwon
5 Do moves.'"
6 Tell us what you recall about
7 that allegation.
8 A. Keeping it light and joking with the
9 guys, I told them, if you ever see me dancing in
10 the cemetery or behind the school, that I was
11 practicing what they called forms.
12 And, you know, I did get out, and
13 I would stretch and do those for a few minutes
14 before I drove around again.
15 Q. All right.
16 A. It would look silly if somebody didn't
17 know what I was doing.
18 Q. All right.
19 Did anybody ever tell you or
20 speak to you or discipline you in any way for
21 the allegations in 9?
22 A. No.
23 Q. From Chief Deputy O'Brien's testimony,
24 he mentioned Thode and Lizer, the police
25 officers, and the fact that they said that you
1178
1 had a lot of pent-up anger.
2 Did you, in fact, feel angry?
3 A. Yeah, I did. Lizer saw some of it, but
4 it was brief. I was just walking by him, and I
5 was verbally grumbling about Halligan.
6 Q. All right.
7 And what about Halligan?
8 A. Well, I would just -- I had just been
9 informed, you know, that our shift was going to
10 run short because we had to sit on this house.
11 I had concerns --
12 Q. Okay, wait. We're in --
13 A. All right.
14 Q. I think, Curt, we're in -- Well, maybe
15 not. Maybe it is.
16 If it's August of 2007, then it
17 could be what -- this is after the search
18 warrants, so I'm sorry to have interrupted you.
19 Go ahead.
20 A. Shall I continue where I was?
21 Q. Yeah, yeah. Please, if you remember.
22 A. All right. Clarifying, when I hear
23 this complaint from Lizer, which is what I think
24 it was about. Does that help?
25 Q. Yes.
1179
1 So the only time you know of when
2 you expressed any concern to Lizer was in
3 connection with a search warrant and being
4 called on to sit on the house?
5 A. I may have griped to him, but if I did,
6 he's a supervisor. I really can't say a whole
7 lot to a supervisor, even though he's a police
8 officer at the time too, so if I griped, it had
9 to be pretty general and pretty light and pretty
10 short, but I don't really recall anything about
11 it.
12 Q. Are there other people here, deputies,
13 even ranking officers, who occasionally grumble
14 about something happening on their jobs?
15 A. Yeah. Most of us gripe from time to
16 time.
17 Q. 10, the search warrant.
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. September 8 -- in looking at the
20 records now, we know that it was around the
21 midnight time, roughly.
22 Tell me what happened that night
23 as you recall it.
24 A. All right.
25 I was called to the location, and
1180
1 I met with Jim O'Brien, and standing near him
2 was Deputy Halligan, and I was being informed
3 that we were going to have to watch this house
4 and secure it until they could do something with
5 it in the morning.
6 I expressed my concerns, of
7 course, about our being short, and I think this
8 has all been covered. Do you want me to go over
9 it all again?
10 Q. Not particularly, no.
11 A. All right.
12 Q. I think that in large measure, aside
13 from assigning motivation to you, the facts of
14 what happened, your expression about how worried
15 you were about what might happen, I think
16 they're more or less agreed to, so I don't think
17 we have to go through that.
18 You did leave; right?
19 A. I left to get some food.
20 Q. Did you ever disobey any order of any
21 kind in connection with this?
22 A. No, I didn't.
23 Q. Okay.
24 And I'm uncertain what the
25 charged refusal to obey an order is, but would
1181
1 you ever intentionally disobey an order?
2 A. Only if I thought it was immoral or
3 unlawful or harmful in some way, that I just
4 thought it was unethically sound, I would
5 question it.
6 This one I did question, but I
7 did follow the order.
8 Q. And you questioned it because of
9 concern about something bad happening?
10 A. Safety, yes.
11 Q. And you were given a choice as to
12 whether it would be you sitting on the house or
13 Walter sitting on the house, and you said you
14 would do it. Tell us why.
15 A. Well, being an older guy, I don't mind
16 sitting, reading a few magazines, practicing
17 forms, so it doesn't bother me; but for a newer
18 guy, because I used to be one, it's not fun just
19 to sit there in front of a house.
20 And I thought, "If I just tell
21 Tony, look, stay in the Fort Dodge area, try not
22 to get in any trouble if you can help it because
23 I may not be able to respond right away. Just
24 go ahead and patrol."
25 The P.D. was short. I thought if
1182
1 he stayed close, he could maybe help the P.D.,
2 and they would benefit.
3 With him being a new guy, he
4 wouldn't have to sit there bored, and me being
5 the old guy, I didn't mind.
6 Q. During the night, did anyone come to --
7 any other law enforcement officer come to the
8 house?
9 A. Yes. Early in the morning, maybe
10 three-ish, something like that, Nick Ruggles
11 came up to check on me, see if I needed a break,
12 how I was doing, and we were just visiting for a
13 while.
14 Q. All right.
15 A. And then Deputy Walter got into a
16 chase, and Officer Ruggles said he would sit on
17 the house while I broke away and went his
18 direction.
19 Q. Let me show you what I have marked
20 something -- 30, which we would offer at this
21 time.
22 MS. VALENTINE: Any objection
23 to 30?
24 MS. CONLIN: She doesn't have it
25 yet. Sorry.
1183
1 This is what we got on subpoena
2 from the police department about Deputy -- or
3 I'm sorry -- about Officer Ruggles, and while I
4 can't understand it, I think that Sergeant Ruby
5 has studied it.
6 Q. I know you yourself are not very
7 familiar with these documents; right.
8 A. Correct. I'm not familiar with these.
9 Q. And we have looked at
10 Sergeant Walter's -- Oh, we haven't looked at
11 it. Let's look at it now.
12 539 is Deputy Walter's activity
13 log for 9-8-06, which would also include your
14 night shift of 9 -- or of September 9th;
15 correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And you will see an entry at about 5:40
18 that refers to the chase; correct?
19 A. I -- I'm sorry, Roxanne. Where am I
20 supposed to be looking at, something --
21 Q. Look at 539 first, Curt.
22 MS. CONLIN: Maybe I don't --
23 MS. VALENTINE: I'm sorry,
24 Counsel, when you're referring to "539," are you
25 referring to Exhibit 539?
1184
1 MS. CONLIN: I am.
2 Did you just hand them that?
3 CRYSTAL WHITNEY: I gave them 30.
4 MS. CONLIN: Okay. 539 I think
5 is already admitted.
6 MS. VALENTINE: It is admitted.
7 MS. CONLIN: Okay. Good, good,
8 good.
9 So Exhibit 539, which is being
10 handed to you --
11 A. Thank you.
12 Q. -- 5:40 in the morning he talks about
13 the chase, and we're going to talk about that in
14 a minute.
15 I first want to ask you to look
16 at, if you can, Exhibit 30, and if you can point
17 us on this document to about when you think that
18 Ruggles came to the house.
19 A. He came to the house probably
20 around 3:00 because we visited for about a half
21 hour before the chase took place.
22 Q. All right.
23 A. And so it appears to me as I try to
24 read this that he started to sit on the house at
25 about 3:35, somewhere around there.
1185
1 To help everybody out, I'm
2 looking at Deputy Walter's sheet here. He
3 doesn't log in the time that the chase starts,
4 but he has logged in when he concluded
5 everything.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. And that might cause some confusion for
8 everyone.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. But we know it was between 2:50
11 and 5:40, so it was around 3:30.
12 Q. How do we -- Oh, oh, that's from his
13 log.
14 A. Right.
15 Q. Okay.
16 And then 30 tells us that
17 Ruggles -- Well, what does it tell us?
18 A. It looks like he may have left the
19 scene. Maybe he -- You know, it looks like he
20 was there until about maybe 4:40, 5:00,
21 somewhere thereabouts, and I don't recall if
22 I -- if I went back and relieved him or not, but
23 I may have.
24 Q. Okay. Let's talk about that chase.
25 You're at the house, Ruggles
1186
1 comes by. While he's there, what happens?
2 A. Tony radios he's got a car running from
3 him out on a gravel road area, and I said to
4 Officer Ruggles, "Would you sit on the house and
5 I'll go his direction?"
6 And he said he would, and I
7 started going that direction, but the chase
8 didn't last long. Maybe -- maybe 30 seconds.
9 It was short, and he -- and Deputy Walter had
10 radioed that they had bailed out of the car and
11 ran into the woods.
12 And I told him I was coming, and
13 he asked if I would -- if I would stop at the
14 law enforcement center and get him some night
15 vision goggles, and I said I would, and that's
16 what I did. I went to the law enforcement
17 center, but I'm trying to step it up because
18 he's out there alone, he's got guys in the
19 woods.
20 I grabbed the goggles, and I head
21 out in his direction, and he's on 220th, I
22 believe, is the road, and it's on the correction
23 line of the county, and I got confused on the
24 addresses because they are -- They don't line
25 up, and it took me a little longer than I wanted
1187
1 to to get to him, but I did get to him with the
2 goggles.
3 Q. Okay.
4 And is this incident where you
5 couldn't find him out there the reason why you
6 created the locator document that is in the
7 record as Plaintiff's Exhibit 4?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay.
10 And so you -- I know you're quite
11 concerned about Deputy Walter being out there on
12 his own, and you're desperately trying to reach
13 him. Is that correct?
14 A. And I'm a little mad at myself too
15 because I can't get to him as fast as I wanted
16 to. I get frustrated because I'm getting older.
17 Q. I did forget to ask you this: At the
18 house, at the beginning of them asking you to
19 sit on the house and that sort of thing, did
20 Deputy Halligan say anything to you that you
21 thought was uncalled for?
22 A. Yes, he did.
23 I told the guys, "Okay. I'll
24 cover the house."
25 I excused myself. I said, "If
1188
1 you guys will excuse me, I'm going to go in the
2 back and relieve myself."
3 And he said in a quite -- what I
4 took to be a nasty fashion, and loud enough for
5 everyone to hear, "Don't go pissing on any
6 evidence back there."
7 Q. You do outrank him; right?
8 A. I do.
9 Q. All right.
10 So you get out there to the
11 scene, having been delayed by your own inability
12 to find the place, and what happens on the
13 scene? And by that, I mean out on 220.
14 A. I finally get to him, and I give him
15 the goggles, and he's looking around.
16 And he asked me if I would assist
17 him with the paperwork while he did other
18 things, and so I did what was called a vehicle
19 tow inventory sheet while we were hooking up the
20 vehicle for a tow truck.
21 And then he was kind of looking
22 around and looking for evidence and whatnot, and
23 working with the goggles a little bit.
24 Q. And was a tow truck on the scene when
25 you got there?
1189
1 A. It was, yeah.
2 Q. And you're accused of having walked
3 away from the scene. Do you recall that
4 testimony?
5 A. I do.
6 Q. What really happened?
7 A. Well, we got it towed. The tow truck
8 was getting it loaded up, or had it loaded up,
9 somewhere thereabouts, and I asked Tony if we
10 needed to do anything else, you know, if he
11 wanted me to do anything else.
12 And he said no. It looked like
13 he had things wrapped up, but he did say he was
14 going to walk around and check a few buildings
15 with the night vision goggles, but he didn't
16 need me. He didn't think they were around.
17 I said, "That's fine, Tony." I
18 said, "I'm going to work my way back to Fort
19 Dodge."
20 And I think I was going to go
21 back to sit on the house, but I told him, I
22 said, "I'll kind of go slow so I don't get too
23 far in case you do find something around the
24 buildings."
25 And so I poked.
1190
1 Q. "Poked," you mean --
2 A. Poked, yeah.
3 Q. All right.
4 A. I slowly drove down the gravel road,
5 and I got maybe a half mile away, maybe less,
6 and Tony said something about, you know, "I need
7 you back here," or something, and indicated he
8 saw somebody or something, so I just turned
9 around and came back.
10 But by this time, he had been in
11 the woods -- I didn't know he went into the
12 woods -- and had found this guy hiding, and had
13 come out with him handcuffed, out of the woods.
14 And so I helped him search the
15 guy, and everything worked out, and we did find
16 that he had a knife on him, and Tony said,
17 "Maybe I should have waited for you."
18 And I said, yeah, you know, but,
19 you know, it happens. They're young, and they
20 kind of do things like they do.
21 Q. All right.
22 In connection with this matter,
23 did you ever receive any criticism -- Well, let
24 me start again.
25 When you -- When this is all
1191
1 over, do you speak to a superior officer and
2 make a complaint actually to Sheriff Mickelson,
3 and make a complaint on or about September 9th
4 or 10th against Chief Deputy O'Brien?
5 A. I did.
6 Q. And why was that?
7 A. Well, I had learned just talking with a
8 reserve deputy that this reserve deputy
9 hadn't -- or had been called, but told not to
10 bother to come in and sit on the house. As it
11 was, I wasn't asking him about it. It just came
12 up. He said something like, "Did you ever get
13 somebody to sit on the house?" or "Did you have
14 to sit on the house?"
15 And I said, "Yeah, because you
16 guys weren't available."
17 And he said, "I was available and
18 I was going to come, but I was told not to
19 bother because you was going to sit on it."
20 Q. All right.
21 A. And then I waged a complaint from there
22 that I felt that Chief O'Brien had lied to me
23 about the situation and left us short as a
24 result.
25 Q. In his testimony, Chief Deputy O'Brien
1192
1 told us that it is always the policy to have two
2 deputies per shift because it can be a dangerous
3 situation, and he talked about committals and
4 other things, and that was exactly the concern
5 you expressed when you were ordered to sit on --
6 or when you were -- I guess you were ordered to
7 sit on the house, and you did so.
8 The concern about the safety of
9 both the sole officer and the public was what
10 motivated you to review other alternatives;
11 correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did anything happen as a result of your
14 complaint to Sheriff Mickelson? Did he
15 investigate it, to your knowledge?
16 A. To my knowledge, no.
17 Q. Did you speak with him again about it?
18 A. No. I told him, and that was it.
19 Q. All right.
20 Defendant's Exhibit K is the
21 Halligan report done on September 13th and
22 solicited by Chief Deputy O'Brien. One of the
23 things the report -- First of all, you didn't
24 know about this, did you?
25 A. I'm sorry?
1193
1 Q. You did not know that
2 Chief Deputy O'Brien had solicited a report from
3 Deputy Halligan about the September 8th and 9th
4 incident?
5 A. No, I didn't.
6 Q. In this report that is Exhibit K, he
7 says, "On numerous occasions he has told this
8 officer that he doesn't know how he is going to
9 get thru the day because he is so stressed out."
10 What do you recall about making
11 any such comment?
12 A. I have no recall on that.
13 Q. All right.
14 He also says, Curt, that
15 Sergeant Ruby's -- He says he is writing this
16 report "because I feel that Sgt. Ruby's actions
17 that I have witnessed are endangering the safety
18 of other officers that he is working with."
19 Did anybody ever tell you that
20 there was a suggestion that your conduct was
21 endangering your colleagues?
22 A. No.
23 Q. To your knowledge, have you ever, ever
24 done anything, at least intentionally, that
25 would put another officer in danger in any way?
1194
1 A. No, not intentionally, not ever.
2 Q. All right.
3 He also says, "I feel that he
4 would not back up another officer" -- I'm sorry.
5 "I feel that he would not back another officer
6 up when needed."
7 Is it correct that one of the
8 most important duties of one officer to another
9 is to back that officer up?
10 A. Oh, yeah.
11 Q. Have you ever in your entire career as
12 a law enforcement officer ever, ever failed to
13 back up another officer?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Has anybody ever suggested to you that
16 you had failed to back up another officer?
17 A. No.
18 Q. When you saw this document, were you
19 enraged?
20 Let me say --
21 A. No.
22 Q. -- were you concerned?
23 A. I'm not sure how to articulate what I
24 felt when I read it. I just feel that Halligan
25 is probably talking about himself personally,
1195
1 and feels that maybe I wouldn't back him up, but
2 that would be incorrect. I would back him up.
3 Q. All right.
4 He goes on to say that your
5 mental state toward performing the job is to
6 the point and feel -- this is Deputy Halligan
7 feeling --
8 A. Right.
9 Q. -- that you -- "that his mental state
10 towards performing the job is to the point that
11 he would rather not do the job."
12 True or false?
13 A. That's false.
14 Q. And he goes on to say, "This not only
15 affects the officers that he works with but also
16 affects the public who he is to protect."
17 Again, have you ever, ever done
18 anything in your 28 years as a law enforcement
19 officer that would endanger the public?
20 A. Nothing intentional.
21 MS. CONLIN: All right.
22 Commissioners, I have now located
23 Sergeant Ruby's activity log for this evening,
24 and there was -- this was missing, not
25 intentionally at all, but I didn't have a chance
1196
1 to look at this till last night.
2 I would like to show it to him,
3 and then we'll introduce it as an exhibit when
4 we get some copies. I'll just go with the
5 original at this point.
6 Okay. Here is your activity log,
7 Curt, and it says --
8 MS. PENICK: Can we put that on
9 the Elmo maybe?
10 MS. CONLIN: Oh, sure. What a
11 good idea.
12 Q. Okay.
13 Now, you see 15, "Begin watch.
14 Relieved by Fort Dodge P.D."
15 You think that's a reference to
16 Ruggles?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Then it looks like the incident begins
19 about 3:45. What is down at 4:30, "SO,"
20 sheriff's office?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And I don't know. 5:45? I'm going to
23 see if I can get it up a little bit. Well, I
24 guess that -- Can you see that?
25 A. Yes.
1197
1 Q. All right.
2 "5:45, Coleman visit" with -- Why
3 don't you read that for us?
4 A. Yeah. "Coleman district" is what I
5 meant to put. That's where the house was with
6 the search warrant, was Coleman district.
7 Q. And what does this mean?
8 A. Can I see the rest?
9 Q. Yeah.
10 A. "With P.D. on earlier site on
11 18th Avenue South."
12 I think what that means is I just
13 stopped to make sure, you know, whether or not
14 they needed me there, or if they were going to
15 sit on it, or something along that line, that I
16 was just checking in with them regarding that
17 site.
18 Q. Okay. I'll keep it out.
19 Were you ever aware that
20 Officers Lizer and Thode had complained about
21 your conduct?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Okay.
24 So the first thing, as far as you
25 know that happens after this search warrant and
1198
1 the chase, is your complaint to Mickelson;
2 right?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. September 18th, 2006, is the 11th of
5 the charges --
6 MS. VALENTINE: And, Counsel,
7 before we go to 11, could we take a 5-minute
8 break?
9 MS. CONLIN: Sure, sure, sure.
10 MS. VALENTINE: And I would also
11 remind you of the time. We are at a quarter to
12 ten.
13 MS. CONLIN: Okay. My watch
14 says 20 till.
15 MS. VALENTINE: We can go with 20
16 till. I just want to make sure we're all --
17 Okay. 5 minutes.
18 MS. CONLIN: Okay.
19 (A recess was taken from 9:40 a.m.
20 until 9:55 a.m.)
21 Q. Okay, Curt.
22 You and I have discussed the
23 charges that have been made against you for
24 hours; correct?
25 A. Yes.
|
